What I Really Said in the Baptist Press Interview (with audio)
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Baptist Press recently released an interview that Jonathan Howe and Brandon Porter conducted with me in my study in Cape Coral, Florida, on April 5. Both they and I recorded the interview. They did so indicating that they would edit out the “ums,” “uhs,” and “wells,” etc. from the transcript in order to make the article flow well without losing the contextually understood meaning of my words.
In the interview that they posted, however, there appears to have been some difficulties in making those edits. In fact, my responses were largely left unedited except for the exclusion of certain things I said. Baptist Press did, thankfully, correct a misattribution of a vile word to me, after I sent a screenshot of the error to Brandon with the correction, “The word is prig.” There are other misquotes throughout the article, but I quickly decided it would be too tedious and time consuming to send the authors all of them.
Despite these editorial issues, feedback I have received indicates that many people seem to have gained some insight into my meaning. For this I am grateful. Others, however, have jumped on the poorly edited section regarding women serving on SBC committees to erroneously conclude that I am against such. I regret that. Though I did answer the question I was asked directly, that does not come out in what was printed. Here is a word-for-word transcript of that exchange:
Tom: I don’t think I would be asking any women to be chairmen of a board…
BP: …but could serve as on the board?
Tom:…board members? Yeah. I mean, yeah. Again there might be a situation I can’t envision…
There was some talking over at that point as Jonathan Howe interrupted me. But to his direct question, “But could [women] serve as [members] on the board?” I answered, “Yeah.” I went on to use the example of women serving in combat, which I believe is contrary to God’s design in distinguishing men from women. My point was that the God-designed distinctions between men and women do not end at the doors of the church. To hear that exact part of the interview, click here. You can listen to the complete exchange in the audio below (found at 00:46:26).
I do not know how the interview arrived in print with the unfortunate editorial issues it contains, but in the interest of openness and transparency, I am making available the full audio below. In it you can hear a more complete and accurate version of the how the questions were phrased as well as my exact answers.
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2023 SBC Resolution On The Office Of Bishop/Elder/Pastor
I have submitted the following resolution to the 2023 Resolutions Committee of the Southern Baptist Convention for adoption at the annual meeting scheduled for June 13-14 in New Orleans, Louisiana. My hope is that the committee will recommend it to the convention and give the messengers an opportunity to vote on it. From their beginning in 1845, Southern Baptists have been clear about the nature, qualifications, and function of the office of Bishop/Elder/Pastor. All three designations are used for the same office. It is only in recent years that Southern Baptists have begun to speak on this issue equivocally. Though some contemporary Southern Baptists may be unclear on what a pastor is, our heritage is free from such uncertainty. May this resolution provide the messengers gathered in New Orleans the opportunity to reaffirm that heritage and speak with clarity on this unambiguous New Testament teaching.
2023 SBC Resolution on the Office of Bishop/Elder/Pastor
Tom Ascol
Whereas, The Baptist Faith and Message that was adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention in 1925 was identified in its preamble as the “New Hampshire Confession of Faith, revised at certain points, and with some additional articles growing out of present needs”; and
Whereas, The revision of the Baptist Faith and Message in 1963 was led by a committee who declared that it “sought to build upon the structure of the 1925 Statement” while “in no case [seeking to] delete from or to add to the basic contents of the 1925 Statement”; and
Whereas, The committee that revised the Baptist Faith and Message that was adopted in 2000 stated in its preamble that it “respects and celebrates the heritage of the Baptist Faith and Message, and affirms the decision of the Convention in 1925 to adopt the New Hampshire Confession of Faith, ‘revised at certain points and with some additional articles growing out of certain needs . . . .’ and further affirmed their “respect the important contributions of the 1925 and 1963 editions of the Baptist Faith and Message”; and
Whereas, Article XIII of the New Hampshire Confession states that in a gospel church the “only scriptural officers are Bishops, or Pastors, and Deacons”; and
Whereas, Article VI of the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message states that a church’s “Scriptural officers are bishops, or elders, and deacons”; and
Whereas, The same article (VI) in the 1963 Baptist Faith and Message substitutes the word “pastors” for the words “bishops, or elders” in the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message, so that it says that a church’s “Scriptural officers are pastors and deacons”; and
Whereas, The same article (VI) in the revision of the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message retains the exact language found in the 1963 version when it states that a church’s “scriptural officers are pastors and deacons”; and
Whereas, The New Testament uses all three titles that the Baptist Faith and Message has used to describe the one office of bishop (ἐπίσκοπος, episkopos; Phil. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:7), elder (πρεσβύτερος, presbuteros; Acts 14:23, 20:17; 1 Tim. 5:17, 19), and pastor (ποιμήν, poimēn; Eph. 4:11; 1 Pet. 5:1-5), thus demonstrating that from its first expression in 1925 through its revisions in 1963 and 2000, the Baptist Faith and Message has affirmed that, along with deacon, the only other office in a New Testament church is that of bishop/elder/pastor; therefore, be it
Resolved, That the messengers from Southern Baptist churches convening in the annual meeting in New Orleans on June 13-14, 2023 affirm that the only officers of a local church that the New Testament recognizes is that of deacon and of bishop/elder/pastor; and be it further
Resolved, That Southern Baptist churches be encouraged to remember our biblical heritage and teach that these are the only two officers appointed by Christ to serve along with all the members of a New Testament church and to insist on all the biblical qualifications that the New Testament requires of all those who would hold either office of bishop/elder/pastor or deacon.
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Charles Spurgeon’s Public Evangelism (Part 1)
This article is Part 1 in a series.
Each local church plays a vital role in the great commission. Sadly, according to C. H. Spurgeon, the great commission has become the great omission. Spurgeon writes:
The gospel command is so little obeyed that one would imagine that it ran thus, ‘Go into your own place of worship and preach the gospel to the few creatures who will come inside.’ ‘Go ye into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in’ … we ought actually to go into the streets and lanes and highways, for there are lurkers in the hedges, tramps on the highway, street-walkers, and lane-haunters, whom we shall never reach unless we pursue them into their own domains.[1]
The aim of this article is to set before you a minister of the gospel, namely Charles Haddon Spurgeon, who sought to wield the sword of the Word in the public Sphere. Spurgeon made it his every effort to win the lost wherever he went. Speaking of this, he writes: “not only must something be done to evangelize the millions, but everything must be done … This must urge us onward to go forth into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in.”[2] As we begin, let’s think of the “what” and the “how” of Spurgeon’s evangelism.
First, what is an “Effective” Public Witness? As we begin, we must think of that common argument you often hear regarding public evangelism. Is it an “effective” witness in our day? One may attempt to argue that this “public” witness was effective and acceptable in Spurgeon’s day, but times have changed! Many would argue that a “public” wielding of the Word is offensive to the sinner. However, it is critical to understand that society has never been accepting of such evangelistic labours. Consider the following statement from an interview done with Paul Washer:
Spurgeon was constantly attacked in his culture for the openness of his faith and the openness of his preaching. If you go back to the time of Whitefield and just look at the political cartoons written against Whitefield, I mean, he was considered an absolute fanatic, a crazy man. Why? Because he preached in the open-air … It has never been with the culture to do open-air evangelism … It has been against the culture since the moment the apostle Paul stood up in that great coliseum and spoke the Word of God.[3]
In his public witness into the community, Spurgeon was not trying to “re-invent” the wheel of public evangelism, but instead was seeking to go back to the “ancient paths” and follow the pattern of his Lord. Spurgeon argued that “open-air preaching is as old as preaching itself … Indeed, we find examples of open-air preaching everywhere around us in the records of the Old Testament.”[4] Similarly, through open-air preaching, Spurgeon followed the pattern of the Lord Jesus Christ, and his apostles, who actively sought the lost outside of a building. Spurgeon writes: “Our Lord himself, who is yet more our pattern, delivered the larger proportion of his sermons on the mountain’s side, or by the seashore, or in the streets. Our Lord was to all intents and purposes an open-air preacher.”[5]
Second, what did Spurgeon to do bring the Gospel to the public square? Over the next three articles, we will seek to look at Spurgeon’s public witness in terms of open-air preaching, personal evangelism, and tract and literature distribution. For this article, I want to look at Spurgeon’s use of open-air preaching in his early years of ministry.
The prince of preachers, Charles Spurgeon, avidly supported open-air preaching, arguing that it is “very easy to prove that revivals of religion have usually been accompanied, if not caused, by a considerable amount of preaching out of doors, or in unusual places.”[6] The great benefit of open-air preaching is “that we get so many new-comers to hear the gospel who otherwise would never hear it.”[7] Recalling his former days of ministry at Waterbeach Baptist Chapel, Spurgeon wrote the following:
There went into that village, a lad, who had no great scholarship, but who was earnest in seeking the souls of men. He began to preach there, and it pleased God to turn the whole place upside down.[8]
Throughout his journals, Spurgeon would fondly recall his days of open-air preaching: “I preached at Bristol, many years ago, in the open-air … I had a crowd of sailors and collier to listen to me, and when I began to talk to them about Christ’s redeeming work, I saw the tears streaming down their cheeks.”[9]
As the Lord richly blessed and multiplied Spurgeon’s pulpit ministry, he still made it his effort to preach in the open-air from time to time, and he greatly encouraged others to do so:
I have preached twice, on a Sabbath day, at Blairmore not far from Benmore, on a little height by the side of the sea … I have been compelled to abstain from these exercises in London, but not from any lessened sense of their importance. With the Tabernacle always full, I have as large a congregation as I desire at home, and therefore do not preach outside except in the country; but for those ministers whose area under cover is but small, and whose congregations are thin, the open air is the remedy, whether in London or in the provinces.[10]
The street evangelist has the great privilege of picking up those who would never enter a church building: “The open-air evangelist frequently picks up these members of the no church party, and in so doing he often finds some of the richest gems that will, at last, adorn the Redeemer’s crown.”[11] Therefore, if we are to see multitudes of sinners won to the Lord Jesus Christ, the church must actively seek them. The doctrine of the total depravity of man showed Spurgeon that man is not seeking after God. Instead, the evangelist must seek after the lost.
However, Spurgeon believed that open-air preaching must only be done by some men, men who are called by God, sent out by the blessing & support of the local church, and compelled with love for sinners. Far too often, open-air preachers are controlled by their pet peeves, and not the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this reason, Spurgeon gave certain criteria for open-air preachers:
He must have (1) a good voice; (2) naturalness of manner; (3) self-possession; (4) a good knowledge of Scripture; (5) ability to adapt himself to any congregation; (6) good illustrative powers; (7) zeal, prudence, and common sense; (8) a large, loving heart; (9) sincere belief in all he says; (10) entire dependence on the Holy Spirit for success; (11) a close walk with God by prayer; (12) a consistent walk before men by a holy life.[12]
From this list of criteria, we can learn two lessons. First, open-air preachers must have large and loving hearts: “We win hearts for Jesus by love by pleading with God for them with all our hearts that they would not be left to die unsaved, by pleading with them for God.”[13] We must proclaim “a great Saviour to great masses, a great Saviour to great sinners” showing that “Jesus, by his death, has become immensely rich in pardoning grace”[14] If properly done, open-air preaching can be greatly used by God:
I am persuaded that the more of open-air preaching there is in London the better. If it should become a nuisance to some it will be a blessing to others, if properly conducted. If it be the gospel which is spoken, and if the spirit of the preacher be one of love and truth, the results cannot be doubted … The gospel must, however, be preached in a manner worth the hearing.[15]
On another note, the open-air preacher must be resolved to fix his eyes upon the gospel of Jesus Christ. When preaching in the open-air, Spurgeon rightfully argues that “our object is not to conquer them in logical encounters, but to save their souls … Christ is to be preached whether men will believe in him or no.”[16] Similarly, the preacher must “keep to [his] subject, and never be drawn into side issues. Preach Christ or nothing: don’t dispute or discuss except with your eye on the cross. If driven off for a moment always be on the watch to get back to your sole topic. Tell them the old, old story.”[17]
Second, Spurgeon argued that the open-air preacher must be done in a manner worth hearing. This means that the style of preaching must be simple, clear, and compelling. The open-air preacher must acquire a style fully adapted to a street audience. Spurgeon suggests that “the less formality the better, and if you begin by merely talking to the two or three around you and make no pretence of sermonizing you will do well.”[18] Additionally, the preacher must use illustrations and interact with the audience: “In the street, a man must keep himself alive, and use many illustration and anecdotes.”[19] The preacher must “have something to say, look them in the face, say what you mean, put it plainly, boldly, earnestly, courteously, and they will hear you.”[20] Therefore, when open-air preaching, Spurgeon would recommend a quiet, loving, penetrating, conversational style of preaching.[21]
Concluding Remarks:
So what? How do we go forward as the people of God in 2024? As pastors, if our congregation is to function as a public witness for Jesus Christ in the twenty-first century, we must prepare our people for it. Our people must know the message of the gospel that we are to proclaim. They must be firmly committed to the means that God has given us to share the gospel, namely, the proclamation of his Word. And as pastors, we must seek to train and disciple leaders who will then go out and proclaim the gospel on the streets. To encourage public witness in the church, Spurgeon would do two things. First, he would make public evangelism regular pray in the life of the church. Second, he would actively encourage and development evangelists in his local church. We can do the same as we seek to be salt and light in this dark generation.
In terms of prayer, you can see Spurgeon’s evangelistic heart in the following exhortation to his congregation:
Preaching the gospel is the means which He is pleased to bless. much that he may work by the means of our Evangelists and bring thousands to the Lord Jesus. They are men full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and God is with them.[22]
In terms of encouraging the development of evangelists in the local church, Spurgeon his pastoral students to be active in open-air preaching. Spurgeon writes: “One of the earliest things that a minister should do when he leaves College and settles in a country town or village is to begin open-air speaking.”[23] One of Spurgeon’s students, Thomas Medhurst, followed Spurgeon’s advice and began his ministry preaching in the open-air. This open-air ministry later led to his call as pastor at the Baptist Church at Kingston-upon-Thames.[24] Pastor, what are you doing to equip and send out evangelists into the public square? Who knows what God would do if His people unleashed His Word in the streets of our Nation! May God bless your efforts for the glory of His great name and the advancement of His gospel.
[1] Ibid. [2] C. H. Spurgeon, Lectures to My Students (1894; repr., Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1954), 253. [3] Cameron Buettel, “Cameron Buettel Interviews Paul Washer” (Grace Community Church. San Antonio, July 23, 20. [4] Spurgeon, Lectures to My Students, 234. [5] Ibid. [6] C. H. Spurgeon, Autobiography: The Full Harvest, ed. Susannah Spurgeon and Joseph Harrald (1900; repr., Carlisle, PA: Banner of Truth, 2014), 2: 91. [7] Spurgeon, Lectures to My Students, 255. [8] C. H. Spurgeon, Autobiography: The Early Years, ed. Susannah Spurgeon and Joseph Harrald (1900; repr., Edinburgh: Banner of Truth, 1976), 1: 193. [9] Spurgeon, Autobiography: The Full Harvest, 92. [10] Ibid., 87-89. [11] Spurgeon, Lectures to My Students, 257. [12] Ibid., 269. [13] Iain H. Murray, Spurgeon V. Hyper-Calvinism: The Battle for Gospel Preaching (1995; repr., Carlisle, PA: Banner of Truth, 2010), 82. [14] Ibid. [15] Spurgeon, Lectures to My Students, 265. [16] Ibid., 270. [17] Ibid., 269. [18] Ibid., 263. [19] Ibid., 265. [20] Ibid., 266-267. [21] Ibid., 268. [22] Ibid., 31. [23] Spurgeon, Lectures to My Students, 262. [24] Ibid., 27.
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A Call to Action for Southern Baptist Pastors
My friend and fellow pastor, Josh Buice, announced yesterday that the church he serves, Pray’s Mill Baptist on the west side of Atlanta, has officially broken ties with the Southern Baptist Convention. Josh and his fellow elders are thoughtful, godly men and, as he thoroughly explains in his announcement, they did not come to this decision instantly or lightly. I am saddened that they felt compelled to take this step but understand and support them in it completely. What saddens me even more, are the reasons he cites that led them to this point.
In fact, what Josh describes as the concerns of their church is exactly what I have heard from countless other SBC churches and pastors over the last few years. They are concerns that I and many in the church I serve also share. I have written and spoken about these matters repeatedly since 2017—both privately and publicly. Sadly, as Josh explains, such efforts have been largely ignored if not repudiated all together. If SBC leaders want more churches to leave, they just need to keep doing what they have been doing the last few years.
The Southern Baptist Convention desperately needs a change of leadership. We need men in positions of leadership who have both conviction and courage. The former without the latter may sound good but is useless when the battle rages hot—and it is currently boiling over. The latter without the former results in mere useless bluster, or worse, in bullying tactics that are justified for the sake of “the cause.”
Currently the SBC has more “convictional” cowards (who sign all the documents but don’t have the courage of their convictions) than blustering bullies (who will slanderously condemn in the name of standing for truth), but in reality, it has too much of both. What we need are pastors who fear God, are full of the Holy Spirit, and free from the fear of men. Only such men will be able to lead their churches safely through the minefields of our modern culture. Other qualifications might be of some assistance (such as experience, formal education, and exceptional giftedness), but without the three previously mentioned qualities a man will be worthless in gospel ministry and should stay far away from the pastorate.
Godly, humble, bold pastors are what we need today. That is the need of every generation but it is glaringly obvious today. It is the greatest practical need of the SBC. Our convention of churches is in a mess and only God can lead us out of it. I believe that if He is pleased to do so it will be by bringing thousands of pastors to our knees, leading us to confess that the institutions and agencies that belong to our churches have drifted and strayed because we—the undershepherds of the flocks who own them—have let it happen. We have not led our churches to keep our denominational servants accountable to the churches that they purport to serve.
Godly, humble, bold pastors are what we need today. That is the need of every generation but it is glaringly obvious today.
The only way forward is the way of repentance and faith—repentance over our failure to do our duty as pastors, and faith in the crucified, risen, Savior who has promised to build His church in such a way that the very gates of hell will not prevail against it. Jesus was not talking about the SBC when He gave us that promise. The convention of churches known as Southern Baptists could stumble so as never to rise again. That would be a great loss and cause for genuine sorrow, but it would not threaten in the slightest the certainty of Christ’s promise.
So, these questions cannot be avoided—Will Southern Baptist pastors stand up and take the lead in calling our SBC institutions and agencies back to a humble, responsiveness to the churches that own them? Will pastors call for the repentance or removal of those who have led these institutions into the cultural capitulation that Josh touches on in his announcement? If so, then we can hope for better days ahead. God has worked reformation and revival in the past and as Isaiah 59:1 says, “Behold, the LORD’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear.” If it pleases Him to do so, He will do it. If not, then His kingdom will continue unimpeded in spite of the SBC.
To my fellow Southern Baptist Pastors, I issue this challenge. Where we have been derelict in our duty, let us repent. Where we have feared men or lived for their applause, let us repent. Where we have failed to exercise properly the stewardship entrusted to us in leading our congregations to be responsible members of a larger convention of churches, let us repent.
Then let us bring forth the fruits of repentance by resolving now to call for integrity and righteousness in our leaders. The presidents of our institutions and agencies who even tolerate godless ideologies being imbibed by those who work with them must be called to repent and to destroy every stronghold, argument and lofty opinion that is raised against the knowledge of God, taking every thought captive to obey Christ (2 Corinthians 10:4-5). If they refuse to repent, they should be encouraged to exercise enough integrity to resign. If they refuse to resign, they should be relieved of their duties.
The convention of churches known as Southern Baptists could stumble so as never to rise again…it would not threaten in the slightest the certainty of Christ’s promise.
A call should go forth from the churches of the SBC calling on our current President, Ed Litton, to resign over his egregious, public sins and dishonesty that have been clearly documented and repeatedly discounted by him and his co-conspirators. If he refuses, then we should elect a new president at the 2022 annual meeting in Anaheim, June 12-15. I believe that man should be the kind of pastor I described above, a man who fears no one but God.
I know the challenges. I have heard multiple reasons why it is “unfeasible,” “problematic,” and even to some “impossible” to hope for real change at the Anaheim convention. They are not without warrant. But, brothers, we serve a God who raises the dead! Will He be pleased to rescue the SBC? I honestly do not know. But I do know this—He can do it! And if he chooses to do so it will be through the humble, determined, courageous leadership of Southern Baptist pastors.
Brothers, we must resolve now to show up in Anaheim and to bring our full allotment of messengers with us. If the very churches that own the institutions will not fight for them, then let us be neither surprised nor upset as we watch them fall completely into the hands of principalities and powers to do the devil’s wicked bidding for generations to come.Follow Tom Ascol:
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