Audio Transcript

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. It’s good to be back with you. And it’s a privilege to be back with you, Pastor John.

Pastor John, a few years ago we were able to have one conversation, and, by God’s grace, we had a second, and now this is our third. So thank you for being here. Thank you for your commitment to Cross Conference. We’re so grateful for you.

It’s a dream come true.

Our Need for Focus

The guys who organized this conference said that they had a whole series planned for this conference around 1 Peter, and when they talked to you, you said, “That’s not the thing we need to do.” You love the Bible, but you wanted it to be a different theme. You chose the theme “Focus.” Why did you want the theme “Focus” for this year? Is that a new thing for our generation only, or is that something other Christians have struggled with also?

I don’t remember it just like that, but we’ll go with that. I think what I was struck with is two conceptions of the problem with lack of focus. One problem is that what you’re focused on is wrong, and the other problem is that you don’t focus — your eyes are blurry. In my mind, focus is intentional, concentrated attention. So, I have an attention possibility in my head, I grasp it, and I direct it intentionally toward something, toward an end. And I don’t think a lot of people do that. I think that’s work. It’s called thinking.

We are, in one sense, a hyper-focused culture with the screens. You look at your screen and somebody’s talking, and you don’t even know they’re talking because you’re so focused. Well, that’s not what I mean. That’s passive focus. You’re not intentionally riveting your attention with a view to going somewhere or accomplishing something. That was one piece of it. I want there to be a generation of people who live their lives intentionally. They know something about God, they know something about the world, and they intentionally rivet their attention on it and make their lives count for that, because otherwise you’re just a jellyfish floating in the water instead of a dolphin.

I preached a sermon one time about that. I have to tell this story, because I used the jellyfish illustration and I said, “You don’t want to be a jellyfish, do you? Who wants to be a jellyfish?” And this little girl in the second row said, “I do.” I said, “No, you don’t. Ask your mommy why. You don’t.” And I just think there are a lot of you who are jellyfish. You’re just drifting. Whatever comes next, you just enjoy it, instead of saying, “No, I’m going to rivet my life’s attention and focus on something infinitely valuable and go for it with all my mind.” That’s the nobody focuses part.

The other part is that what the world thinks is worthy of your focus doesn’t compare to what they don’t think is worthy of your focus. Just check your news feeds, or if you still look at newspapers. I used to marvel that the Minneapolis Star Tribune (it was the main paper in the Twin Cities) — it had an entire section called “Variety,” an entire section called “Business,” and an entire section called “Sport.” There was a whole section called “Sport,” and there was not one single section on God. There was no section on missions and no section on church. The world is focused on the things that they think are important. Right now, they’re feeding you New Orleans. They’re feeding you the coming inauguration. They’re feeding you the war in Gaza. They’re feeding you the war in Ukraine. They’re feeding you the bomb blowing up in front of the Trump Tower. They’re feeding all of this, and you think, What’s the next thing to see? And I’m saying, “Excuse me? That’s not the main thing that’s happening today.”

The main thing that’s happening today is that there are about forty thousand people laying down their lives for Jesus, telling the gospel in places where he’s not yet known. And that’s the focus. So, I didn’t mean to preempt 1 Peter. That’s not good. I think 1 Peter could be really good for focus, and every year is a focus year.

Distracted and Divided

Amen. The theme of our conversation right now is how the glory of Jesus — the one we just heard John talk about — dims out our distractions. Because you, maybe more than any other generation — though distractions have been around for a long time — are inundated with distractions, just like John said. You’re inundated with your TikTok reel or your Instagram reel. What we want you to see today is that when you see Jesus rightly, you’ll see the world clearly.

So with that, Pastor John, I imagine that there are many — hundreds, if not thousands — in this room tonight who would say they’ve trusted in Christ, that they believe that you’re only saved by trusting in his finished work. But when they evaluate their own life, their affections, as you often talk about — they seem often divided and dull for Christ, even as they consider what Christ offers and what the world offers. What the world offers seems just as compelling as to what Christ offers. What would you say to those here who are trusting in Christ, but their affections seem divided? They’re having a hard time seeing Jesus for who he actually is.

Divided affections are dealt with exactly in Psalm 86:11: “Unite my heart to fear your name.” I pray that every morning. I have this prayer that I pray, and the acronym is I-O-U-S. I stands for “Incline my heart to your testimonies” (Psalm 119:36). O is for “Open my eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of your law” (Psalm 119:18). U is “Unite my heart to fear your name” (Psalm 86:11). And then S is “Satisfy me in the morning with your steadfast love” (Psalm 90:14).

You’ve asked me to talk about affections going after the world and going after Jesus. I think it would make a huge difference if all of you had a deeply grounded theology of the affections. The word affections is an eighteenth-century word for emotions. We think emotions are frivolous and like ripples on the sea, where affections are deeper. What I mean by spiritual affections are the kinds of feelings that are prompted by the Holy Spirit. That’s why they’re spiritual. And what I mean by “a well-grounded theology of the affections” — or a theology of joy in particular — is that you may not be persuaded that it’s right to pursue red-hot affections.

When I was in college, I was very conflicted about this because I heard so many speakers say, “You have to do God’s will, not your will.” And I thought, That means a life of perpetual frustration. My will is always canceled. My happiness is always canceled. I need self-denial of my joy. That was always preeminent. Therefore, I thought I needed to live a life of unending frustration while I did God’s will. It really did feel that way. Maybe we’ve come a long way since then; I don’t know. But for me at that time — and perhaps for some of you — I didn’t have a theology of joy, suffering, and the affections that enabled me to say, “Not only are you permitted to pursue maximum joy (namely, joy in God), but you are required to.” That’s what jolted me. Maybe it will jolt some of you. You are required to pursue joy in God. It’s not just a permission; it’s a demand. “Delight yourself in the Lord” is a demand (Psalm 37:4). And I’ve spent most of my last fifty years trying to discern the role of joy and the affections in the Christian life, the Christian motivational structure.

The ultimate reason I’ve hit upon is that God is most glorified in you when you are most satisfied in him. Now, if you could be persuaded of that, that you cannot glorify God as you ought until Jesus becomes your most satisfying treasure, then you wouldn’t think joy in God was icing on the cake. It’s the cake. Saving faith has in it a treasuring of Jesus that’s palpable. Jesus said, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst” (John 6:35). So, believing is coming to Jesus to be satisfied in him, the bread of life. If you’re not satisfied in Jesus, you have a crisis of faith.

Developing that theology of joy, I think, would set students on the kind of quest for joy that might succeed. Because my guess is that the language of affection and the language of the beauty, excellence, and satisfying nature of Jesus is coming out a lot, and it will continue. But my guess is that a lot of you say, “Well, that would be nice, but that’s not my personality. I don’t even think of those categories. I do not talk about delighting in Jesus. I don’t talk about being satisfied in Jesus. I talk about devotion to Jesus, obedience to Jesus, and believing Jesus. I don’t have any of that affection language.” I would say you’re in real danger. You’re in real danger if you ignore the biblical commands to delight in the Lord above all things. I’ll stop here, but then you have to talk about suffering. But we’ll see if that comes out later.

Delighting in the Real Jesus

It’s one thing to say, “Delight in Jesus,” but could we just break it down at the most simple level? What is so wonderful about Jesus that delighting in him is not a burden, but it’s a joy?

Well, you just heard the answer to that in that last message, and I wanted to take hold of John and say, “We saw him, we saw him,” but let me see if I can be more personal. He has to be true, first of all. I mean, you might be sitting there thinking, Everything he said was wonderful. It’s just not true. You think that Jesus isn’t who he said he is. I know people like that. They can talk about all the excellencies of Jesus, all the glories of Jesus, all the power and wisdom and beauty of Jesus. And they say, “This is not true. It’s just a myth. It’s just made up.” And so, the first thing to say about how he becomes your delight is that he becomes real.

I mean, could you give an account right now for why you believe he’s true? Number one, he existed. Could you give an account for that? He was the Son of God. He lived a sinless life. He died on the cross. His purpose was to save sinners. He rose from the dead. He reigns today. He’s coming again. What if somebody said, “Nice — just not true”? And so, we have to come to terms with the truth. I’ll just give you where I would go in answer to that question. And it’s developed over the years.

I’ve read the Bible fifty times maybe, but the apostle Paul’s thirteen letters have become my friends — so much so that I love the apostle Paul. I love him. I have a Rembrandt picture of him. Nobody knows what Paul looked like, but I have a picture in my exercise room in the attic, along with Jonathan Edwards, my dad, and Dan Fuller. I turn off my audiobook before I run in the morning, and I look at these four men, and I look at Paul, who started it all for those, and I say, “I love you. I love you. I thank you for suffering like you did.” Now, you would think, “That’s the way you would talk to Jesus. You talk to Jesus that way.” Absolutely I do, but here’s the catch: I have a PhD in critical New Testament studies, which is just deadly to your faith, right? I got it in Germany. It’s deadly.

I know what the critics say about the inauthenticity of the Gospels. One of the teachers I was studying under said there are about six sayings of Jesus that may go back to Jesus in the Gospels. That’s just deadly. But they will admit that there are at least six of Paul’s letters that are authentic. Nobody in the world who’s had any critical skills at all would doubt that Paul wrote six of these thirteen letters. Take away everything else. Just give me those six letters. And I have lived with him in those letters to the point where I cannot call him a fool. I cannot call him deceived. I cannot call him an egomaniac. I would face any skeptic anywhere in the world who is telling me why this, this, and this cannot be true about Jesus, and I would say, “Okay, I have your word, and I have Paul’s word. He has won my trust. I don’t even know who you are.” I might say, “You don’t think clearly,” or “You have an axe to grind.”

What I’m commending to you is that you need to immerse yourself in the Bible — especially in the Gospels with regard to Jesus and the Epistles with regard to Paul, and see whether or not he’s credible to you as a testimony. All we can know about the past is what is testified. I have given Paul my credit.

Now, once I do that, the things he says explode, because we’re talking reality. I mean, the things he says are so off-the-charts amazing. I’ll just give you one example. When they were boasting in Corinth, he said,

Let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future — all are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. (1 Corinthians 3:21–23)

If you’re a child of God, you inherit the universe. I’m saying that, if you slow down, if you’re convinced it’s true, if you savor the specifics of Scripture, they will move you. And if they don’t, you need to be on your face in repentance, praying, “O God, open my eyes; awaken my heart; move me. Don’t let me be dead like a log.” (I just finished reading the new translation of Calvin’s On the Christian Life. Several times he talks about people being logs.)

That was a long answer to what’s so great about Jesus. The answer is, “He’s true.” And once you get that settled — deeply settled, so you could die for it without batting an eye — then the particulars that come from it are staggeringly glorious.

Amen.

They demand poetry. They demand songs. I say that because I had a lot of leisure time over the holidays, and I wrote a fifteen-stanza poem. I thought it was going to be a song, but nobody sings fifteen-stanza songs. We might sing it at Desiring God just for fun. But it was on the question, What is serious joy? I wrote that poem, and I’ve written poems all my life because he’s better than mere prose can communicate.

Amen. As you’re saying that, I’m reminded that I was preaching through Mark last year, and the leper comes to Jesus. I assume he was having to yell, “Unclean, unclean,” as he runs to Jesus. He’s probably not been near people or touched in maybe all his life. And he says to Jesus, “If you will, you can make me clean.” He’s thinking, “I know you’re able, but I’m not sure you will.” And Jesus reaches out and touches him and says, “I will.” I thought, “Who is this man who does that?” It’s only the God-man. That’s so glorious and so sweet.

When you hear about floods and tsunamis and hurricanes, you should have ringing in your ear, “The wind and the waves obey him.” Really, you just have to come to terms with that. Either he is in charge of the wind and the hurricanes and what happened in Asheville and across the south, or it’s a fake. They said about him, “Even the wind and waves obey you,” which means he can stop any wind he wants, any flood he wants, or any plane crash he wants. He can stop any catastrophe, and that just makes things totally real. I have to either stop worshiping this man, or I have to bow before that majesty.

By Grace We Are What We Are

Amen. So, one of the things that we all struggle with is comparison. And when you’re in your twenties, it is very dominant in your mind. How does seeing Jesus the way you just talked about help us put comparison to death?

First Corinthians 15:10 says,

By the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.

It didn’t land on me until recently when he said, “By the grace of God I am what I am.” Now, grace is good. God’s grace is not, “Oh, I missed it,” or “Your harm is really what I’m after.” That’s not grace. And Paul said, “By the grace of God I am what I am.” Now, either you’re going to be okay with that or reject him. You might say, “He’s not gracious, he’s not powerful, and he’s not wise.” You might say he’s not gracious because you don’t like how tall you are or how your fatty tissue is proportioned in your body, or how your hair is, or how your complexion is, or how your personality is, or how your disability is.

Oh my goodness, I’m so glad that we have Joni Eareckson Tada writing a book like The Practice of the Presence of Jesus, which my wife and I read out loud to each other last year. I’m giving it to people right and left. I’m going to require it as a textbook for my class on 2 Corinthians because Joni, as you know, has been in a wheelchair for about 53 years, and she’s singing like nobody sings. That is crucial. We need more witnesses like that to God’s sovereignty in controlling what happens to us. She could be very bitter and say, “I don’t like the way I am. I don’t want to be in this chair.” She’s very honest. She said, “The first thing I’m going to do when I get to heaven is bow before Jesus and then throw this chair into hell.” And that’s a very good way to say it. But she’s not accusing Jesus as being hellish while she’s in that chair.

I don’t know what you’re dealing with that makes you not like the way God made you. I mean, I have been frustrated all my life that I can’t read quicker. I can’t read any faster than I can talk. I struggled like crazy to get this education that I got. I’ll just never be a great scholar. I won’t. I won’t be like Kevin DeYoung. He’s going to talk to you on Saturday. That guy reads everything. He remembers what he reads, and he says smart things about what he reads. I just look at that and say, “I might read a book a month — maybe.”

Just know that when I was a little younger than most of you, I could not speak in front of a group. I was paralyzed. In the ninth grade, the teacher required that we read one paragraph in front of the whole class to describe our project. As we were coming down the road to me, I looked down, and I could see my shirt moving up and down because my heart was beating so hard. I got up, I went to the bathroom, and I cried my eyes out. That’s the ninth grade. I could not speak in front of a group. I hated it. Now, I didn’t know what God was doing. It didn’t make sense to me at all. Then there was also my slow reading, and I had acne. I hated acne. I hated pimples. I thought, Nobody can like me. I had these zits all over my face. (It’s hard to be a teenager. I’ll tell you; it is.) From my perspective now, I think I sinned a lot in responding that way to my disability. God had plans to do something that I don’t think anybody can quite estimate.

So, by the grace of God, you are who you are. That’s the first answer to the question “What do you do when people scorn you, disapprove of you? What do you do when you don’t measure up to them, and you don’t measure up to yourself?”

The other thing I would say is that being so gloriously satisfied to know Jesus and to know his approval caused Peter and the other apostles to come out from being beaten and shamed rejoicing that they had been counted worthy to be shamed for the sake of the name (Acts 5:41). You have a great Jesus when you can have a whole crowd of people mock you, and you walk out rejoicing. That’s the miracle we want to happen in this conference. You are so satisfied in his identity of you, his friendship with you, his acceptance of you, his purpose for your life, that these other people don’t count like that counts.

This is true confession. I’m 78 years old. I’ll turn 79 in a few days. That means I’m entering my eightieth year, which means I’m entering my ninth decade. That’s old. I was in a group thinking, I have my identity nailed down. John Piper knows who he is. I’m okay with that. I know what I can’t do, and I know what I can do. I was playing a game, and one of the pieces of the game was that everybody needed to think of a suit from the card. We went around to see how many had the same one. I didn’t know what they were. I’ve never played a game of cards in my life. Can you believe that? I mean, I’m so totally fundie and out of it.

“You cannot overestimate the importance of the Bible in your life.”

I said, “I think there’s a king in the deck?” I said, “King,” and they laughed at me, and I felt that old sting. I really did. I felt, Everybody thinks you’re an idiot. “You have pimples.” “You can’t talk.” “You’re one of those crazy Christians.” This is a dangerous thing. That doesn’t happen very often to me, but I felt the sting, and I kind of laughed and rolled with it. We are sinners to the end, in need of grace.

Kept by God Alone

Yes, if the sovereign God sent his Son to die for you, it doesn’t ultimately matter what anybody says about you.

Considering what we heard earlier today with Garrett’s message, I imagine that, over the last sixty years of your life, you’ve probably seen a lot of people who would say nothing is more satisfying than Jesus. But then you’ve seen some of those same people live out what Jesus warned about in Mark 4 — that when the pressure came, when the pleasure was offered, when the persecution was there, they were willing to desert Jesus. What’s kept you from being one of those who fell away? What habits have you cultivated in your life to continue to see and savor Jesus for all of your days?

Well, those are not the same — what has kept me and what are the habits. So, let’s deal with them one at a time.

What has kept me is God. When I stepped down from the senior-pastor position at Bethlehem thirteen years ago, Together for the Gospel was a big conference — like this, here in this town — and I was up to speak at that. First time speaking as a non-pastor after 33 years, and that’s what I spoke about: he kept me. Jude says,

Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 24–25)

That’s probably one of the greatest doxologies or benedictions in the Bible. And what’s it all been in praise of? He keeps us. There’s only one hope for you, and it isn’t the habits that you’re going to develop. It’s that God’s grace will hold on to you. Which means that the first habit is to pray, “Do that.” I’ve probably prayed that prayer as often as any prayer: “Keep me. Keep me.” I have a little prayer bench at home. I go to my prayer bench that I have. I’ve spent a lot of time there, and a lot of it has been just desperate, praying, “Keep me.” Maybe marriage was on the rocks, and it felt awful. Noël and I could hardly talk to each other. I would pray, “Please hold on to me. Hold on to her.” Or it could be, “The church is about to split, and 230 people have just left. Please, please hold on to me.” I just think that’s what you do. If you find yourself getting close to walking away from Jesus, just go flat and pray, “Hold on to me. I can’t do it. I can’t hold on to you. Hold on to me.” That’s number one.

And number two is to listen to him. That’s been said, and it will be said. You cannot overestimate the importance of the Bible in your life. You really cannot. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17). That’s not just about conversion. It’s about tomorrow morning and staying a believer. I ask people everywhere I go, “What makes you think you’re going to be a Christian tomorrow morning — that you’re going to be a believer when you wake up in the hotel room? What makes you think you’re going to be a believer? Why wouldn’t your faith just be gone when you wake up tomorrow morning? Why won’t you just be in love with the world like Demas and go away from Jesus? Why wouldn’t that happen?” If you say, “Well, I’m smart,” or something else, you’re wrong. There’s only one answer: he keeps you, and he uses means, and prayer and the word are the primary means.

Somebody mentioned you should read biographies. That’s true. Isn’t it amazing that God didn’t just give the church a Bible and say, “Now, you have your Bible, and you have the Holy Spirit. You don’t need teachers.” Wouldn’t that magnify the worth of the Bible? Wouldn’t that magnify the power of the Holy Spirit? You don’t need Ben Lacey as a pastor. You don’t need Pastor John to write books. You don’t need human teachers. You have the Bible, and you have the Holy Spirit. Just go off and get your theology. But the New Testament says every church should have elders, and elders should be apt to teach. And all of you, if you’re not an elder, should be under elders and they’re teaching you.

Here’s maybe one more thing in that regard. Where does that intersect? This is another answer to, how did Piper stay in love with Jesus? And the answer is this: corporate worship under the word of God. I feel bad for those of you who are in churches where you are not hearing solid, good, rich biblical exposition of glorious truth. I hope that changes for you sooner or later. But I’ve been in churches where I’ve heard that and I’ve led that, and I can tell you, my marriage was saved more than once by corporate worship.

Here’s the way it works. I can remember sitting before I went into the pulpit to preach. I would be on the front pew. We would be singing a song, and somebody was going to read Scripture, and Noël and I weren’t talking to each other. She or I said something ugly last night. One of the kids stayed out too late. We were just seeing things opposite, and it’s awful emotionally. I’m angry at her, at the kids, and I have to preach in three minutes.

The kind of songs we sang were like ones here: “How Great Thou Art,” “In Christ Alone,” “To Christ Be the Glory.” In those moments, I would be standing there and have Tom Steller, my associate, next to me with his eyes closed with his hands in the air. And I was stewing about my marriage. I would look at Tom, look at the others, and see people enjoying God in worship, and I would be broken. I would think, What’s wrong with you, Piper? This marriage is worth billions of dollars. She’s precious to you. Why are you so out of proportion with your emotions right now? And the corporate-ness of the worship rescued me.

That’s the word in corporate worship. Being in a good church would be a wonderful way to be kept by the sovereignty of God.

Amen. If you leave here and get in the word and get in a church who gets in the word, that’s a good thing to remember for the rest of your life.

It is.

Convictions Behind a Dream

You were a part of a group twelve years ago that dreamed up Cross Conference. Why did y’all dream this up? And what are some things that you want to say to this generation in light of that conversation you had twelve years ago?

I won’t be able to remember all of them, but I’ll make a stab at some of them. There were dimensions of God and dimensions of the world that we felt were not being captured as fully, deeply, richly, and globally as we thought they should be. We were all Calvinists (and we still are), meaning we love the sovereignty of God, and we believe God saves us decisively, not we ourselves. And so that was right at the heart. Big-God theology would be another word for it. We wanted a conference that had big-God theology. When you come to this conference, you’re going to get a big, sovereign, glorious God. That was a big piece of it.

Secondly, we were driven by the lostness of the world. We looked around at conferences, and it looked as though the shift was from seeking to rescue sinners by the gospel to seeking to make life better in this world with the gospel. Now, you might wonder, Well, is that wrong? Here’s the little saying that I’ve used, and I think we share it as a conference: Christians care about all suffering, especially eternal suffering.

Now, the reason that statement is valuable is because it makes conservatives and liberals nervous. Everybody gets nervous. Liberals get nervous because you say “especially eternal suffering,” and they don’t even believe in hell. And that’s what is especially important: rescuing people from eternal suffering. And conservatives get nervous because you said you care about all suffering — like all the wars, all the poverty, all the homelessness, and all the fentanyl addiction, suicides, and overdoses. And we expect that in our churches. People are going to have a burden for all those things.

I hope you hear those two things at this conference. We care about all suffering, especially eternal suffering. If you can’t say both of those, something’s wrong with your heart or your theology — really wrong. We really believe in hell. We really believe in hell as a horrible, horrible future. My wife and I just watched a documentary about Dante, who wrote Inferno. His description of the nine levels of hell and who’s there is of course imaginary, but it was shocking. We believe in hell.

We believe that people’s languages all over the world are to be focused on by the church till the church is planted there. In other words, we’re not just about saving individuals, but we care about the fact that God has so governed the world that there are several thousand languages that don’t have churches among them so that the gospel can’t flow in a natural way across the language because nobody has gone there, learned the culture, learned the language, and planted the church. That’s a huge thing for us. Reach the peoples. Reach the languages.

Another one is the church. We’ve stressed it here. I’m going to preach the last message here on Saturday, and I’m going to call for some of you to stand up. And one of the ways it’s going to go is that we at this conference don’t just want you to say, “I have a vision for missions, so here I go. Where’s the agency I can go with?” No, it’s going to be, “Where’s the church I can belong to, plug in to, grow in, and be sent by?” And if you don’t have one of those, part of this conference is aimed to motivate you in that direction. We have a local-church orientation towards missions.

And maybe one more thing would be contextualization. Contextualization means this: we looked around the world thirteen years ago, and we saw drifts in missions that basically accommodated so much of the local culture that you couldn’t recognize Christianity anymore. So, you win a Muslim to Christ and tell them to stay in the mosque, tell them to read the Quran, and tell them to speak to the prophet but to also add Jesus. That’s not a good way to view contextualization. I mean, contextualization is real. Paul said, “I become all things to all people that I might win some” (see 1 Corinthians 9:22). You can’t talk to somebody if they don’t know the language that you’re speaking.

So, we saw a whole cluster of issues in theology and missions that needed addressing. And when I said a minute ago that this is a dream come true, you’re it. I mean, we sat in a hotel room in Minneapolis thirteen years ago, and it never entered my mind, I don’t think, that I would be looking out on fifteen students at the Cross Conference. So, I’m amazed what God is up to in these days.

Take a Risk

Amen. Here are two more questions in light of that. You talk often about risk. You say that in the gospel and with the Great Commission, risk is right. There may be many people here tonight who think, “Jesus is glorious.” They do want to answer the call to the Great Commission and go to the ends of the earth, but they’re calculating the risk because there is a cost to it. There is a cost of comfort, convenience, money, disappointing family and friends, and dreams of a life in the States potentially. What would you say to those who are calculating the risk and why is risk right?

Well, Jesus said, “Count the cost” (Luke 14:28). So that’s not anybody’s imagination; that’s just Jesus. When you try to lead someone to Jesus, don’t make it sound easy. It isn’t. And you shouldn’t do bait and switch in your evangelism.

I think the first thing to say is to get the meaning of risk clear. God not only does not take any risks, but he also cannot take any risks. I was at a mission conference one time where the whole message was built around the idea that God risked creation, and it went bad. God risked sending his Son into the world, and he got killed. I just thought, This is absolute heresy — because the meaning of risk is that you don’t know what the danger is. If you know what the danger is that you’re walking into, you call it sacrifice, not risk. Risk is when you step into a situation or move toward a goal and you don’t know how bad it may go. It may go very bad, or it may not, and that’s the risk.

So, God can’t risk, and the reason that’s so important is because the fact that God can’t risk but knows everything and rules everything means you can:

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? . . . No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. (Romans 8:35–37)

In the end, the reason you take risks is because they aren’t a very big risk. I used to say that to folks in my church because I’d invite them to come and live in the neighborhood, which was called Murder-apolis, and I would say, “Fear not: you can only be killed,” because that’s exactly what Jesus said. He says,

Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. (Matthew 10:28–30)

Come on; lay it down. Take a risk.

Now, the crucial question then is, “For what? Which risks?” Bungee jumping and skydiving are not one of them. I think you should risk for the glory of God and the good of people, not for thrills. So yes, you probably should drive a car. That’s huge. I said to my wife as we were driving on our anniversary in December, “Look at these cars coming out. They’re going sixty miles an hour. They’re passing you four feet to the right. Any one of them could swerve over in front.” That’s a risk. You have your calculus, and it’s not wrong to calculate. But risk for things that really matter, and the more they matter, the higher you should be willing to risk. Though that’s not a solution.

I had the father of a missionary that we sent get so angry with me. He was not a believer, and his son was going to the Middle East under my influence. At the airport, as his son was leaving with his wife and kids, he looked at me and he said, “If he doesn’t come back, I’m going to kill you.” That was worth the risk. He did come back, but that’s worth it because those people need Jesus.

All Peoples Before the Throne

Amen. Yes, there are no risks with God. Amen. That’s such an encouraging word.

I would love for you to just read Revelation 7, if you don’t mind. If you have your Bible, I’d encourage you to open there now. We’re going to have Pastor John read Revelation 7:9–17. And after you read this, would you mind just explaining to us how this passage should shape and inform how we live the rest of our lives?

After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”

Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

“Therefore they are before the throne of God,     and serve him day and night in his temple;     and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore;     the sun shall not strike them,     nor any scorching heat.For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd,     and he will guide them to springs of living water,and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Worship God. That’s why the universe was made, and God stepped in so that there could be this strange thing where you turn white by washing in red — they made their robes white with blood (Revelation 7:14). That’s a paradox that should just lodge itself in your mind.

And the mission of God is that all those peoples that are mentioned here at the beginning of the text — the peoples, the tribes, the nations, the languages — have all come because these other folks have been faithful. They laid down their lives, and they’ve taken that message of being clean through blood, and God has saved people from all the peoples. And he said that was going to happen in Matthew 24:14, and the outcome is that we are with him eternally. And there’s no hunger. The sun doesn’t strike us, and there’s no scorching heat. God is caring for us. The Lamb is shepherding us. We’re drinking living water. Every tear is wiped away, and it was worth it.

Amen. Pastor John, thank you so much again. Would you pray for us to conclude our time together?

Father, please, it’s been a long day for these students. Grant them focus through the evening and strength. Open the eyes of their heart to see what is the greatness of your power at work in those who believe. I ask that you would do exceedingly and abundantly beyond what we can ask or think. Make the word of God live for them. Keep them, Lord, so that they do wake up believers in the morning and stay believers until Jesus comes or until he calls. I say this in Jesus’s name. Amen.

Amen.

What is Look at the Book?

You look at a Bible text on the screen. You listen to John Piper. You watch his pen “draw out” meaning. You see for yourself whether the meaning is really there. And (we pray!) all that God is for you in Christ explodes with faith, and joy, and love.

Audio Transcript

If you’re following the Navigators Bible Reading Plan with us in 2025, you know we’re in Romans, and today we’re reading Romans 5. In that reading, Romans 5:2 stands out to me. There, Paul models a life that is “[rejoicing] in hope of the glory of God.” Our present rejoicing is a hoping joy, an anticipating joy, a desiring joy, a joy felt now but a joy in something to come — something we don’t have in hand yet, a hope in a future glory that sustains our joy right now. We’ve revisited this precious truth often on Ask Pastor John. For me, it recalls the time we asked, “Is John Piper happy?” Your answer — rooted in this very text — was, yes, John Piper is happy, even amid life’s very painful sorrows. Why? Largely because of Romans 5:2, as you can see in the Ask Pastor John book — if you have a copy handy — on pages 306–307.

Glorious texts like Romans 5:2 prompt questions from listeners like Chip, who writes from Georgia: “Pastor John, hello. Christian Hedonism seems to say that our deepest longings in this life can only be satisfied by God, and that only in him can we be truly happy. If God makes us happier than people who pursue the world, why does Paul say we are to be pitied most of all men if there is no resurrection? (1 Corinthians 15:19). Isn’t our life, even now, more satisfying than that of a non-Christian?”

I am smiling real big. I love sharp, biblically rooted questions. So, I’ve asked this — in fact, I’ve spoken on it. Years ago, I spoke to the Wycliffe folks in Cameroon on this very question, so I was trying to remember what I said. It is a really important and good question rooted in 1 Corinthians 15. So, let me just bring Chip — and the rest of us — up to where I’m thinking today. And I don’t know that I have the completely satisfying answer, but I have some answers that have helped me.

Finding Joy in the Pain

Just a clarification to start with about Christian joy in this painful life. A huge part of our joy as Christians is what Paul calls “[rejoicing] in hope” in Romans 5. In other words, joy is not complete in what we can know and have of God here now. Our joy is in hope of what we will know and have of God in the future.

Also, our joy here is a foretaste of the fullness of joy there. And so, it’s not complete now. We see through a glass darkly, and we know in part, so our joy is in part (1 Corinthians 13:9–12). It’s strong now; it’s deep now; it’s enough to carry the day now. But it’s nothing near like what it will be. So, Romans 5:2 says, “Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” That means that the joy we anticipate in the age to come flows back into this age in measure, but not in fullness — in measure.

“We rejoice in our sufferings,” he says, “knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope” (Romans 5:3–4). So, we are people who have this strange emotional experience of rejoicing in what we don’t yet have to make us happy. So, I don’t want to overstate the joy of the Christian Hedonist in this age. It is not nearly what it will be in the age to come, and much of it is anticipatory now.

Why the Pity?

So, here are the key words that create the problem in 1 Corinthians 15. The context is that Paul is talking about whether Christ has been raised from the dead or not. He says in 1 Corinthians 15:14–17, “If Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God” — that is, we’re false witnesses of God, liars about God — “because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised.” And then 1 Corinthians 15:17–18: “If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.”

“Paul’s sufferings were sustained by his joy in Christ, not the other way around.”

We’re going to come back to that. That’s really crucial. “Christians have gone to hell. Those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. They’ve gone to hell.” “If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied” (1 Corinthians 15:19). And the question is, How can Christians, who have more joy than anybody else, be most to be pitied? That’s the question. And I’m asking, Why did you say that, Paul? And here are the reasons for why Paul says this. I think I see four.

1. A deluded life is pitiable.

Evidently, Paul believes that a life of delusion is to be pitied, even if it’s a happy delusion. It’s not just that what we’re experiencing in this life proves to be more or less happy in the other. It proves to be non-existent in the other. If Christ is not raised from the dead, then my joy in the living Christ is not joy in the living Christ. There is no living Christ, and therefore I am not experiencing joy in the living Christ. I am an absolute idiot. I’m a fool.

Paul’s first conviction, it seems to me, is that this is not true. Christ is raised. And his second conviction is that it’s a delusion if he’s not raised. And it’s an enormous delusion — more pitiable than anything he could think of, evidently. So, that’s the first reason: a delusory life, a life lived in absolute delusion, is to be pitied.

2. Pointless sufferings are pitiable.

Paul’s life would be pitiable because he willingly embraced so much suffering that he could have avoided. Those sufferings were sustained by Paul’s joy in Christ, not the other way around. The sufferings didn’t create the joy in this life. So, if there’s no resurrection, those sufferings were absolutely pointless. That’s the second one.

3. Empty hopes are pitiable.

We deny ourselves many pleasures here precisely for the sake of the reward of the age to come. Jesus said, “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven” (Matthew 5:11–12).

So, we renounce retaliation and the joy of getting back at people. We renounce that. We renounce the comforts of fitting into the world so that we don’t ever have to be criticized or reviled. We renounce that. Why? Precisely because we believe it will be made up to us in heaven. Which means we didn’t just fail to maximize the pleasures we could have had here, but we bargained that the self-denial would be rewarded in the resurrection, and there is no resurrection, and the bargain failed.

4. False prophets are pitiable.

Here’s the fourth and last reason I think he said it. This one comes straight out of his words: “If Christ and we are not raised from the dead, then . . .” Paul doesn’t infer atheism. He infers hell — that we enter a worse punishment in hell than others because we didn’t just make a mistake; we actively misrepresented God.

Oftentimes, I’ve read this chapter in this argument as though, “Well, if there’s no resurrection from the dead, the whole biblical religion is false. There is no God. Que sera sera. Let’s eat, drink, and make merry.” That is not what Paul does. He didn’t argue like that. He says, “If Christ has not been raised, God’s going to send me to hell because I’ve been telling everybody that this is his Son and he’s been raised from the dead. And I am a false prophet, and therefore I am of all people most to be pitied, for I’m going to get the worst punishment.”

Most to Be Pitied

So, I would sum it up — here they are: If there is no risen Christ, no resurrection of believers unto eternal reward and joy, then . . .

1. Christian life is a delusion.

2. Voluntary suffering is painfully pointless.

3. Hope in heaven is futile, and all of our basing our self-denials on it was ridiculous.

4. Any attempt to speak for the living Christ would be a damnable scam and a false prophecy, which would deserve hell even more than others. And we would perish under that severe sentence.

So, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Let me tell you here at the very beginning what the main point of this message is. The main point is this: what the world needs from the church — from Redeemer Church of Dubai, from each of you who make up this church — is indomitable joy in Jesus in the midst of suffering and sorrow. I’ll say it again: what the world needs from the church is indomitable joy in Jesus in the midst of suffering and sorrow.

When I came to the end of my 33 years of pastoral work at Bethlehem Baptist Church back in 2013, in preparing for my last service, I wrote a note to the worship leaders to try to help them catch hold of the spirit that I wanted to prevail in that service. I said that I wanted it to have the flavor of “sorrowful, yet always rejoicing” (2 Corinthians 6:10).

I believe that, for these decades, this theme and tone has marked us deeply. We are a happy people. But we are not what you might call “chipper.” There is a plaintive strain in the symphony of our lives. I think Jesus was the happiest man who ever lived. And oh, how sorrowful! He was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.

Our signature song has been “It Is Well with My Soul.”

When peace like a river attendeth my wayWhen sorrows like sea billows roll,Whatever my lot, thou hast taught me to say,“It is well. It is well with my soul.”

I think that would be a good song to end the service with. God bless and guide you as you build a joyful service that makes all the sufferers know: we’ve been there.

Done with Games

I tried for those 33 years to lead the staff and the elders and the people in the experience of sorrowful, yet always rejoicing. Because I turn with dismay from church worship services that are treated like radio talk shows or podcasts where everything sounds like chipper, frisky, high-spirited chatter designed to make people feel lighthearted and playful and bouncy.

I look at those services, and I say to myself, Don’t you know that people are sitting out there who are dying of cancer, whose marriage is a living hell, whose children have broken their hearts, who are barely making it financially, who have just lost their job, who are lonely and frightened and misunderstood and depressed? Not to mention that we are here to meet an infinitely holy God. And you are going to try to create an atmosphere of bouncy, chipper, frisky, lighthearted, playful worship of the Creator of the universe who loved us by having his Son crucified?

And, of course, there will be those who hear me say that and say, “Oh, so you think what those people need is a morose, gloomy, sullen, dark, heavy atmosphere of solemnity?” No. What they need is to see and feel indomitable joy in Jesus in the midst of suffering and sorrow. They need to taste that this church is not playing games here. They are not trying to replicate any enthusiasm the world knows.

“What the world needs from the church is indomitable joy in Jesus in the midst of suffering and sorrow.”

They are not using religion as a platform for the same old hyped-up self-help that the world offers every day. What the world needs is the greatness and the grandeur and the thunderous power of God over their heads like galaxies of hope. They need the unfathomable crucified and risen Christ embracing them in love with blood all over his face and hands. And they need the thousand-mile-deep rock of God’s word under their feet. No, they don’t need you to compete with the world for a tone that sounds more like cheerleading than the cherishing of blood-bought grace.

They need to hear us sing with all our heart and soul,

Ye fearful saints, fresh courage take;The clouds ye so much dreadAre big with mercy and shall breakIn blessings on your head.

His purposes will ripen fast,Unfolding every hour;The bud may have a bitter taste,But sweet will be the flower.

They need to hear our indomitable joy in sorrow as we sing,

His oath, his covenant, his blood,Support me in the whelming flood.When all around my soul gives way,He then is all my hope and stay.

If you ask me, “Doesn’t the world need to see Christians being happy in order to know the truth of our faith and be drawn to the great Savior?” my answer is, yes, yes, yes. And they need to see our happiness as the indomitable work of Christ in the midst of our sorrow — a sorrow probably deeper than they have ever known that we live with every day. They need to see “sorrowful, yet always rejoicing.”

What Does the World Need?

Let’s put some of that solid foundation under our feet now — the rock of God’s word. What John Piper thinks about joy and sorrow counts for nothing compared to what God thinks. So let’s go to the Bible and see if these things are so.

We will focus on 2 Corinthians 6:3–10. Why have I put the emphasis on what the world needs? Why have I framed the main point of this sermon as “What the world needs from the church is indomitable joy in Jesus in the midst of suffering and sorrow”? The answer is in 2 Corinthians 6:3–4. Paul says, “We put no obstacle in anyone’s way, so that no fault may be found with our ministry, but as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way.”

In other words, Paul is saying, “What I am about to do in this chapter is remove obstacles and commend our ministry.” He wants the church in Corinth and the world not to write him off, not to walk away, not to misunderstand who he is and what he teaches and whom he represents. He wants to win them. He really does want to win them over. He wants the church and the world to see what they really need.

It’s amazing what he does here. Many savvy church-growth communicators today would have no categories for this way of removing obstacles and commending Christianity. In fact, some might say, “Paul, you are not removing obstacles; you are creating obstacles.” So, let’s watch Paul remove obstacles and commend his ministry. “This,” he says in effect, “is what the world needs.”

How Paul Commends His Ministry

He does this in three steps: he describes the sufferings he endures, he describes the character he tries to show, and he describes the paradoxes of the Christian life.

First, he describes the sufferings he endures for Christ (2 Corinthians 6:3–5):

We put no obstacle in anyone’s way, so that no fault may be found with our ministry, but as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: by great endurance, in afflictions, hardships, calamities, beatings, imprisonments, riots, labors, sleepless nights, hunger . . .

So, be asking yourself, How is this removing obstacles? How is this commending his ministry? Why is this not putting people off rather than drawing them in?

Second, he describes the character he tries to show (2 Corinthians 6:6–7):

. . . by purity, knowledge, patience, kindness, the Holy Spirit, genuine love; by truthful speech, and the power of God; with the weapons of righteousness for the right hand and for the left [probably the sword of the Spirit in the right hand and the shield of faith in the left, like Ephesians 6:16–17 says] . . .

Instead of being embittered and frustrated and angry and resentful by all the afflictions and hardships and calamities and labors and sleepless nights, by God’s grace Paul has shown patience and kindness and love. His spirit has not been broken by the pain of his ministry. In the Holy Spirit, he has found resources to give and not to grumble; to be patient in God’s timing rather than pity himself; to be kind to people rather than take it out on others.

And third, Paul describes the paradoxes of the Christian life (2 Corinthians 6:8–10):

. . . through honor and dishonor, through slander and praise. We are treated as impostors, and yet are true; as unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and behold, we live; as punished, and yet not killed; as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, yet possessing everything.

When you walk in the light, minister in the power of Holy Spirit, and speak the truth in “purity, knowledge, patience, kindness, and love,” some people will honor you, and some will dishonor you; some will slander you, and some will praise you. And that dishonor and slander may come in the form of calling you an impostor. They might say, “You’re not real. You’re just a religious hypocrite.”

Remember Jesus said, “Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets” (Luke 6:26), which means that in Paul’s mind a mixed reception (some honoring and praising, some dishonoring and slandering) was part of his commendation. It removed this obstacle: “You can’t be a true prophet; all speak well of you.”

Ministry of Many Paradoxes

Then come six more paradoxes. If you aren’t careful, you might take these to mean that Paul is correcting false perceptions of Christians, but it’s not quite like that. Every perception here of the outsider has truth in it. But Paul says, “What you see is true, but it’s not the whole truth or the main truth.”

You see us “as unknown, and yet [we are] well known” (verse 9). Yes, we are nobodies in the Roman Empire. We’re a tiny movement following a crucified and risen King. But oh, we are known by God, and that is what counts (1 Corinthians 8:3; Galatians 4:9).
You see us “as dying, and behold, we live” (verse 9). Yes, we die every day. We are crucified with Christ. Some of us are imprisoned and killed. But oh, we live because Christ is our life now, and he will raise us from the dead.
You see us “as punished, and yet [we are] not killed” (verse 9). Yes, we endure many human punishments and many divine chastenings, but over and over God has spared us from death. And he will spare us till our work is done.
You see us “as sorrowful, yet [we are] always rejoicing” (verse 10). Yes, we are sorrowful. There are countless reasons for our hearts to break. But in them all, we do not cease to rejoice.
You see us “as poor, yet [we are] making many rich” (verse 10). Yes, we are poor in this world’s wealth. But we don’t live to get rich on things; we live to make rich on Jesus.
You see us “as having nothing, yet [we are] possessing everything” (verse 10). In one sense, we have counted everything as loss for the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:8). But in fact, we are children of God, and if children, then heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17). To every Christian, Paul says, “All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future — all are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s” (1 Corinthians 3:21–23).

No Place for the Prosperity Gospel

Now step back and remember what Paul said in verses 3–4: “We put no obstacle in anyone’s way, so that no fault may be found with our ministry, but as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way.” He has been removing obstacles to faith and commending the truth and value of his ministry — his life and message. And he has done it in exactly the opposite way than the prosperity gospel does it.

What obstacle has he removed? He has removed the obstacle that someone might think Paul is in the ministry for money or for earthly comfort and ease. He has given every evidence he could to show that he is not in the ministry for the worldly benefits it can bring. But there are many pastors today who think just the opposite about this. They think that having a lavish house, a lavish car, and lavish clothes commends their ministry. That’s simply not the way Paul thought. He thought that such things were obstacles.

“Christ is infinitely precious, more to be desired than any wealth or comfort in this world.”

Why? Because if they would entice anyone to Christ, it would be for the wrong reason. It would be because they thought Jesus makes people rich and makes life comfortable and easy. No one should come to Christ for that reason. Enticing people to Christ with prosperous lifestyles and with chipper, bouncy, lighthearted, playful, superficial banter posing as Christian joy will attract certain people, but not because Christ is seen in his glory and the Christian life is presented as the Calvary road with suffering and many sorrows. Many false conversions happen this way.

So how is Paul commending his ministry — his life and message? Verse 4 says, “As servants of God we commend ourselves in every way.” How? By showing that knowing Christ, being known by Christ, and having eternal life with Christ is better than all earthly wealth and health and comfort. We commend our life and ministry by afflictions. We commend our life and ministry by calamities. We commend our life and ministry by sleepless nights. What does that mean? It means Christ is real to us, and Christ is infinitely precious, more to be desired than any wealth or comfort in this world. This is our commendation: when all around our soul gives way, he then is all our hope and stay.

What does it mean that part of Paul’s commendation to the world is that he was “sorrowful yet always rejoicing” (verse 10)? It means that what the world needs from the church is indomitable joy in Jesus in the midst of suffering and sorrow.

Portraits of Joy in Sorrow

Let me move toward a close with two pictures of this “sorrowful, yet always rejoicing” — one from Jesus and one from Paul.

When Jesus said in Matthew 5:11–12, “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven,” do you think it is random that the next thing he said was, “You are the salt of the earth. . . . You are the light of the world” (Matthew 5:13–14)? I don’t think it was random. I think the tang of the salt that the world needs to taste, and the brightness of the light that the world needs to see, is precisely this indomitable joy in the midst of sorrow. Joy in the midst of health? Joy in the midst of wealth and ease? Why would that mean anything to the world? They have that. But indomitable joy in the midst of sorrow? That they don’t have. That is what Jesus came to give in this fallen, pain-filled, sin-racked world.

Or consider Paul’s experience of agony over the lostness of his Jewish kinsmen in Romans 9:2–3. Remember that Paul is the one who said in Philippians 4:4, “Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice.” But in Romans 9:2–3, he wrote, “I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.”

Don’t miss the terrible burden of the word “unceasing.” Paul is saying, “I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart because my kinsmen are perishing in unbelief, cut off from the Messiah.” Is Paul disobeying his own command to rejoice always? No. Because he said in 2 Corinthians 6:10, “[We are] sorrowful, yet always rejoicing.”

Is this not what the world needs from us? Picture yourself sitting across the table at your favorite restaurant from someone you care about very much who is not a believer. You have shared the gospel before, and they have been unresponsive. God gives you the grace this time to plead with them. And he gives you the grace of tears. And you say, “I want so bad for you to believe and be a follower of Jesus with me. I want you to have eternal life. I want us to be with Christ forever together. I want you to share the joy of knowing your sins are forgiven and that Jesus is your friend. And I can hardly bear the thought of losing you. It feels like a heavy stone on my chest. I want you to be glad with me — forever.”

Isn’t that what the world needs from us? Not just a chipper invitation to joy, nor just a painful expression of concern, but the pain and the joy coming together in such a way that they have never seen anything like this. They have never been loved like this. They have never seen indomitable joy in the midst of sorrow, creating compassion. And by God’s grace, it may taste like the salt of the earth and look like the light of the world.

Indomitable Joy in Jesus

So, I say one last time: what the world needs from the church — from us — is indomitable joy in Jesus in the midst of suffering and sorrow.

This was Paul’s commendation of his ministry. May it be your commendation of Christ here at Redeemer Church of Dubai. It is no accident that Paul concluded the greatest chapter in the Bible — Romans 8 — with words that are designed pointedly to sustain your joy and my joy in the face of suffering and loss:

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died — more than that, who was raised — who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;     we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:31–39)

Audio Transcript

We just started March, and that means we just started reading the glorious letter of Romans together — “the greatest letter that has ever been written in the history of the world by anybody, Christian or non-Christian.” That was your claim last time, Pastor John — high praise from a man who has read and studied this letter countless times over more than sixty years. Coming up this Thursday, we find ourselves reading Romans 5:10 together, and it has led a podcast listener named Bethany, an 18-year-old woman, to write in to ask this sharp question.

“Pastor John, hello, and thank you for this podcast,” she writes. “I was given the great joy and privilege of being born into a Christian home and raised by godly parents, and I went to church every Sunday. I gave a credible confession of faith very young and trusted in Christ for my salvation as long as I can remember. Add all this up, and I’m having a hard time understanding how I was God’s enemy. I know I was God’s enemy, according to Romans 5:10. I guess, what does it feel like to be God’s enemy? I’m trying to understand how he and I were opposed against one another. I know my salvation will be even more glorious if I can understand this better and feel it more deeply.”

Bethany is not alone. I’m in her situation. I have no memory of being God’s enemy. I mean, I’m 79 years old. I was saved when I was 6. I’ve been walking with Christ since then. The basic issue we face is this: Are we going to learn our true condition before Christ and outside Christ from our memory and our experience, or are we going to learn it from the word of God? Are we going to feel it because it’s in the word of God and the Spirit applies it to us? Or are we going to try to dredge up some memory that may not exist at all and try to feel that? I don’t think that’s going to work — and even if it did work, it would be inadequate.

Double Enmity

Bethany refers to Romans 5:10. That’s a good place to start. “If while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.” So, she’s right to conclude that, before conversion — whatever age — before faith in Christ, we needed to be reconciled to God because we were his enemies.

That phrase “I am his enemy” is ambiguous. It might mean “I’m angry at him” or “He’s angry at me” (or both). I think Bethany is focusing mainly on how she could feel any enmity toward God. She’s never felt any enmity toward God. Neither have I, consciously. I’ve never consciously raised my fist in God’s face, saying, “You’re my enemy” or “I’m your enemy.” So, when she says she has no memory of that, as far as she knows, she means it. And she’s never felt that way toward God. And I think she’s aware that her enmity (that she’s thinking about) toward God is only half the issue of being the enemy of God. The other half is that God has enmity toward us.

Now, she’s not talking about that directly, but she does say, “I’m trying to understand how he and I were opposed against one another.” Ah, she’s onto it, right? That’s right. The reconciliation has to go both ways, both directions, in order for us to have peace with God. He’s angry at her and me and everybody because of our sin, and we don’t like him. That’s our part — we don’t like him. We consider him an intrusion upon our self-determination and our self-exaltation. That’s our enmity toward him. So it goes both ways.

“You can only know the root of your condition outside Christ by learning it from the Bible.”

See these in the Bible so people don’t have to take my word for it. Look at the amazing connection between Romans 5:8 and Romans 5:9. It’s amazing. Romans 5:9 says, “Since . . . we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.” Okay, so there’s enmity toward us: “saved . . . from the wrath of God.” Our biggest problem is that God is our enemy. He has enmity toward us. He has a legitimate, just, wrathful disposition toward us because we deserve his judgment as God-hostile sinners.

Now, here’s the preceding verse, Romans 5:8: “God shows his love for us . . .” Take a step back and say, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought he was angry.” “God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” So, before the problem of our enmity toward God is overcome, while we were still his enemies, God does what must be done in order to remove his enmity toward us by sending Christ. This is what must be done. He sends his Son, Christ, who bears our punishment so that we might be forgiven and justified.

So, God unilaterally — quite apart from anything we do or say or think, or even our existence — on the cross, satisfies his own justice and wrath in the death of Christ so that there is no condemnation toward those who will believe in him.

Different by Degrees

But Bethany’s question is, What about my enmity toward God? I don’t remember ever feeling that. How should I think about it? How should I feel it?

Now, the first part of the answer is that Bethany is only different in degree from the person who was saved at age 35, having had illicit sex over and over, been in jail, done drugs and every other manner of evil you can think of. She’s only different in degree as to whether she or that person could feel enmity toward God.

And what I mean is that that person, looking back, knows a little bit of how bad sin is and what their condition was and would be outside Christ. But the memory of all those outward acts and even the impulses that caused them does not go to the root of the matter. You can only know the root of your condition outside Christ by learning it from the Bible. God must reveal to us the nature and the depth of our corruption and our sinfulness and our enmity to God. Experience can only take us so far, but not far enough.

Now, Bethany surely has been tempted to sin. I assume she’s a human being, right? She has been tempted to sin, and she can imagine some of what her corruption would be like if she gave in to it repeatedly. And that person who was saved at age 35 has a clear sense of what sin is like. But it’s only a matter of degree that separates them because neither of them — none of us — knows the depth of our condition if we don’t learn it from God in the Bible.

Seeing Ourselves in Scripture

Since I think Bethany and I have basically the same issue — namely, a Christian background in which we don’t have any memory of being enemies of God consciously — let me use myself as an example of how I gain and feel a true conception of my condition before I was a believer (say, at age 4 or 5 years old) and what I would be now (at age 79) without Christ in my life. Here’s what I do: I immerse myself in what God says I was, what God says I would be outside Christ. I make the touchstone of my identity outside Christ God’s word, not my memory.

For example, here’s what I preach to myself. Romans 3:9–11: “Both Jews and Greeks are under sin, as it is written: ‘None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.’” That’s me: no understanding, no seeking, no desire, no righteousness, under the dominion of sin. That’s me. And I meditate on that.

What is that? What does it look like? What is sin? Romans 1:22–23: “Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images.” They exchanged God for images. Romans 1:28: “Since they did not [approve of having God in their knowledge], God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.” Sin is exchanging God for the treasures I prefer rather than God. I prefer to eat of the tree of the garden of Eden. I prefer my way toward money, my way toward power, my way toward fame, my way toward sex, and God is in the way. I don’t like it. I want him out of the way. I want to do what I want to do. That’s sin. I don’t want to be subordinate to any authority outside myself.

That’s what Paul means by enmity toward God. And all of us can feel it crouching at the door. Without the Holy Spirit in Christ, it would take over. That’s me apart from sovereign grace.

What about Romans 8:7? What it adds is that, without Christ, I’m a slave to my arrogance; I’m a slave to my self-determination, my self-exaltation. It says, “The mind [of] the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.” And that word cannot is crucial. My condition, apart from sovereign grace, God’s work in my life, is not just that I don’t please God or even that I don’t want to please God, but that my not wanting to please God is so deep I cannot please God. That’s my condition.

Word over Experience

We can only learn that because God reveals it to us in the Bible, not from experience — whether you were saved at 6 or saved at 60. So, Bethany, we’re all in this together. Whoever we are as Christians, we are all seeking to know who God is, what grace is, who we were and would be without him, and what we are by grace. And we can only know these things rightly, deeply, not because of our memory or our experience, but because of God’s word.

Audio Transcript

The book of Romans answers some of the most important questions we have about life, particularly our own lives. What was my spiritual condition before my conversion? What did God do in Jesus Christ to save me from that condition? How is that work different from what God has done inside of me? How did God overcome my stubborn resistance and give me the gift of faith? And now, how should I live in light of this precious salvation God has given me and is working out inside of me? How does it affect my relationships, my work, and my life at home, in the church, and in the world? What confident hope can I have for the future?

Paul’s letter to the Romans is such a precious gift from God, answering all these questions for us. Pastor John, as we approach March and prepare to dive into Romans in our Bible reading and read it throughout the month, help us out here. You’ve been reading and studying and cherishing this letter for over sixty years now. What advice would you give us to help us draw out the most glories from this great letter?

Let me see if I can raise the expectations of us all as we move into Romans again this year. I will claim, without any fear of contradiction, that Paul’s letter to the Romans is the greatest letter that has ever been written in the history of the world by anybody — Christian or non-Christian.

Why Romans Is So Great

Here’s what I mean by greatest. Three things.

1. It is the fullest divinely inspired summary of the greatest realities in the universe.

2. Among those inspired writings, it is not only the fullest summary of the greatest realities. It penetrates more deeply into those realities than any other book does, like the condition of humanity outside Christ, the meaning of justification by faith, the miracle of the Christian life lived after the law in the Spirit, the condition of the natural world under the fall, the future destiny of the people of Israel, the mystery of why God would prepare vessels of wrath for destruction — things like that. It’s just unparalleled in its penetrating power.

3. What I mean by greatest is that no other letter has had a greater impact on the history of the church and the world than this one. Augustine traced his conversion to Romans 13:13. Martin Luther entered the paradise of imputed righteousness and freedom through the portal of Romans 1:17. And John Wesley’s heart was freed from the strivings of the Oxford Club into the joy of faith by hearing the Moravians read Luther’s Preface to Romans. And millions upon millions of others have walked into peace with God along what we call “the Romans road.”

Romans 3:23: “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
Romans 6:23: “The wages of sin is death.”
Romans 5:6: “While we were still weak . . . Christ died for the ungodly.”
Romans 10:9: “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Goodness, how many millions of people have heard those four glorious and painful and wonderful truths and been saved by God? It’s the greatest letter that has ever been written, and we should enter the front door of Romans this year with a sense of wonder and reverence and thankfulness and expectation and joy.

It’s not just the Mount Everest of Scripture, which it is. It is a whole range of mountain peaks of soaring revelation. If there’s any Scripture to which we should apply Psalm 119:18, this is it: “[O Lord,] open my eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of your [instruction].” (That’s a good translation of torah, sometimes translated “law.”) So, with this sense of expectation and wonder and reverence and thankfulness for the greatest of all books, is there a peculiar angle from which we should come at this book as we read it this year?

How to Approach Romans

Well, I’m very hesitant to limit anybody’s approach to this book. It is, without exaggeration, an ocean. It’s an ocean of insight into reality, and the ocean has no bottom, and the ocean has no shores, which means that this book will never be exhausted by finite human beings in what it has to show us about God and his ways and about his world and his people. But if anybody listening to us would like a suggestion, here’s mine.

“Romans is the greatest letter ever written in the history of the world by anybody — Christian or non-Christian.”

I would dare to say that no believer fully understands who he is and what God did to make us believers — who we are and what we will become. I would venture to say that most Christians have an incomplete — and many even a defective — grasp of what happened to make them a Christian and the miraculous thing it is to be a Christian. Therefore, my suggestion is that many of us read Romans, ransack Romans, this year — for three to four weeks or however long we’re in it — to find the answer to five questions.

1. What was my condition before Christ saved me?

First, what was my condition before conversion to Christ? Which is a form of the same question, What would be my condition now if God had not powerfully moved in my life to save me? We must let God answer this question from Romans, not from our experience.

Some of us were saved when we were six years old, and we don’t have any memory at all of what our condition was before we were saved. And some of us think we know how bad we were because of the bad things we did before we were saved, but we don’t realize how bad we were because, deep down, the analysis of our condition and our corruption is so much more profound than any experience could teach us. We must be taught by God what our condition was (and would be today if we weren’t saved), or we won’t be singing “Amazing Grace” the way we should.

2. What did God do to save me from that condition?

Here’s the second question we should try to answer: What did God do in Jesus Christ in history to save me from that condition? Now, let’s not confuse that question with what God did in me — in me. Martin Luther’s whole world was turned upside down when he realized that his salvation was accomplished outside of him. He called it extra nos. I remember the first time in seminary I heard that phrase, and it landed on me similarly, with power — extra nos, outside of us.

Centuries ago, on a hill outside Jerusalem, it was done. The salvation was achieved. The decisive, divine work was done before Luther existed, you existed, I existed. What did God do outside of us to save us in eternity, in history? Romans is really good on that. Let’s answer that question, because we need to know what he did for us outside of us thousands of years ago, before we ever existed, not just what he does in us.

3. What did God do in me to save me?

Third question: What, then, did God do in us to save us? What does he do to us by his Spirit and his sovereign grace? How was my resistance to him overcome? How did that happen? How did my faith come into being? What was that like? If the mind of the flesh is hostile to God and cannot submit to God’s law (Romans 8:7), how did I get saved? The glory of God’s grace that we find in the Bible is so powerful and decisive that we stop attributing things to ourselves that the Bible attributes to God.

4. How then should I live?

The fourth question I hope we can answer this year is this: How then shall I live in this world if I was saved like that? How shall I live in this church? How shall I live with my enemies? How shall I live in relation to the government, in relation to unreached peoples of the world? By what power can I live the Christian life? How am I to gain that power? How am I to defeat sin? How do I live the Christian life?

5. What does God have in store for me?

Last question, number five: What is my future? What’s my future in this life? What kind of care does God take of me in this life as I walk in the Spirit? What is my future forever? Those are my five questions.

Now, I don’t want to limit anybody’s insights as you read Romans. God has things for you to see besides these five questions, I am sure. So, one way to do both — to let God say whatever he wants to say besides these, and to do this ransacking for these five answers — is to get a notebook or a few sheets of paper and put these five questions on five different pages. And then, as you read — I think that the sections we’re going to read are fairly short — just stay alert to these five questions. And every time you see something that relates to one of them, jot it down on that particular page while he shows you all kinds of other things as well.

Let God speak to you any way he pleases. And don’t fret that you can’t see it all. Depending on how old you are, you can read it maybe another hundred times — and there will always be more to see.