The guys discuss a theology of the cross versus a theology of glory. And, we consider the point of our sanctification.

Resources:
Episode: Take Up Your Cross

Giveaway: “Recovering Eden” by Zack Eswine

FREE EBOOK: Theocast.org/primer

https://youtu.be/THpB7373Yp8

Semper Reformanda Transcripts

Justin Perdue: Welcome to the Semper Reformanda podcast.

When we were having the conversation back on the regular portion of the podcast, we alluded to several things: one of them being these principles of a theology of the cross versus a theology of glory; it’s very applicable to the conversation about dying with dignity and hope. The reason that people react quite strongly to a statement like that, that what we’re doing in the care of souls is to help people die with dignity and hope in Jesus, people buck that and say, “No. There is a lot more that we need to be doing. We need to be churning out strong, valiant, fearless, uber mature disciples who look and talk a certain way, and don’t struggle in certain ways. And if we’re not doing that, then we’re failing. That’s what we need to be doing as pastors.” Our response to that is some of what we said in the regular show, but I think we want to unpack this more here.

We actually have been told in Scripture that yes, we will grow and yes, we will be conformed into Christ’s image, and in this life we will still be weak. We, in this life, will not have a strength of our own that we can trust him. We will know that God’s strength is sufficient, His grace is sufficient, His power is made perfect in our weakness, His grace and Christ’s work has paid for every failing, and that Christ has us. And we’re going to learn that more and more and more, and be driven more deeply into the gospel, and be driven more deeply into Christ, and we’ll know ourselves to be more dependent as we grow in the faith. You and I don’t grow in our sufficiency as we mature; we actually realize how insufficient we are as we mature, and so we cling to Christ all the more.

If that’s what you mean by being stronger in the faith then I’m all for it, but I don’t think that’s what most people mean. It’s because we have confused these categories of the theology of the cross and the theology of glory. A theology of glory is very much earthbound. It’s focused on this life and strength and power and improvement now—getting glory now. Whereas a theology of the cross actually says something different: that we are weak, needy, frail, and feeble now. Christ has accomplished our salvation and glory is coming, but it’s a pattern now of weakness and suffering and then glory in the next life, not this one. I think the church, having confused this, is pretty obvious in a number of ways. I know you’re going to make an observation that’s more about teaching and stuff.

One observation I would just throw out there: how many really good songs have you heard written about heaven in the last 50 years? Good theological stuff written in the last 50 years. Not much. The fact that so much of our thinking is centered on improvement now… And I’m not talking about prosperity gospel theology here; we’re talking about improvement in our maturity and strength and stamina and discipline and all these things, but it’s so earthbound nonetheless. It just sounds more holy.

Jon Moffitt: Monday, I turned 40. As I get older, I think that I should be getting better, I should be progressing, I should be overcoming my weaknesses and failures. I am often reminded that everything I struggle with, everything that’s wrong, is all going to be made right. My wife and I were driving on our way to dinner last night through the backfields of Tennessee, because that’s where we live. It is beautiful. Just beautiful.

Justin Perdue: It’s the stuff country songs are made of.

Jon Moffitt: I’m just thinking, as we’re driving, that one day, my wife and I

In the church, we care for souls. But what is it that we are doing in that work? It is our conviction that we are helping one another die well–with dignity and hope. That may sound like a strange thing to say, but we are convinced it’s biblical. In this life, we are weak and frail. We experience suffering and pain. Yet, Christ is our hope. And he has secured for us a life that is beyond this one.

Semper Reformanda: The guys discuss a theology of the cross versus a theology of glory. And, we consider the point of our sanctification.

Resources:
Episode: Take Up Your Cross

Giveaway: “Recovering Eden” by Zack Eswine

FREE EBOOK: Theocast.org/primer

https://youtu.be/cl1BAv_PDHU

Podcast Transcript

Justin Perdue: Hi, this is Justin. Today on Theocast, we’re going to be talking about what we are trying to do in the church when we care for people’s souls. A lot of things are said about these things, but it’s our position here that really what we’re effectively doing is helping people die well—helping people die with dignity and with hope, and that hope being in the Lord Jesus Christ. A lot of the things that are said about sanctification, even growth in the Christian life, give us the wrong idea. So we want to try to define some terms and define things appropriately today, as well as think well about our weakness and our frailty in this life, and the hope that Christ has given us in the life that is to come ,and to think well together about the faithfulness of God in the midst of our suffering and pain. We hope that this conversation is encouraging for you.

And then over in the SR podcast today, we’re going to get into some theology of the cross and theology of glory conversations. We hope that you enjoy that conversation as well.

We’re going to be effectively talking today about the care of souls and what it is that we’re doing in caring for souls in the church. The title of the episode is Dying With Dignity, which really is borrowed from something that John said on a podcast a few months ago about what we’re doing in the church as we watch over and care for people, which is this: we are helping people die with dignity and hope, and effectively we’re helping people die well, trusting in the Lord Jesus, knowing that deliverance has been accepted for them and that our final deliverance is coming because of Christ. And so this is a conversation in some ways about suffering, in some ways about sanctification, and trying to talk about it in a way that’s honest that squares with our experience. Because a lot of times, at least this is my take and I know you agree, that the way that growth and sanctification and even healing—to use some of that therapeutic language—is talked about. I think it gives us the wrong idea of what it’s going to be like.

This conversation today is, we hope, a kind of a reset. And I personally think it’s encouraging. We do not mean in saying this, in anything we’re about to say, we do not mean to sound fatalistic as though life is gonna be terrible and Jesus is going to come back. That’s not what we’re saying. We’re trying to biblically take a balanced posture on what it is the Lord is doing in our lives and what we can expect this life to look like between now and when we die, or between now and when Christ returns.

Jon Moffitt: That’s right. When we use the word dignity, one of the things that came to mind when I first started to give this theology to our church—I was trying to describe to our church. What are we doing every week? What are we trying to accomplish? I always want to be careful not to tear the churches down, but a lot of what I was seeing presented by other churches has given such a bad taste in my mouth, because if that’s the end goal—which is big buildings, big programs, big livestream…

Justin Perdue: Everything bigger and better and higher.

Jon Moffitt: This is pro